Episode 32: Conversation with Mike DiTallo (Accident Reconstruction & Investigation)

Mike DiTallo:

After we’ve walked the scene and identified the physical evidence, taken some ground photography work, and then we will put a drone up in the air and take more photographs, ultimately then to have a diagram or a point cloud or a three-dimensional environment, all kinds of different things so that we can use it to analyze, if needed, to determine how that crash happened.

David Craig – Host:

I’m Attorney Dave Craig, managing partner and one of the founders of the law firm of Craig, Kelley, and Faultless. I’ve represented people who have been seriously injured or who have had a family member killed in a semi or other big truck wreck for over 30 years. Following the wreck, their lives are chaos. Often, they don’t even know enough about the process to ask the right questions. It is my goal to empower you by providing you with the information you need to protect yourself and your family. In each and every episode, I will interview top experts and professionals that are involved in truck wreck cases. This is After the Crash.

I’m excited to have a gentleman I’ve worked with over the years who does an excellent job. Mike DiTallo, who is with Dynamic Safety. Mike was a former police officer before he moved into the private sector, and he is excellent and qualified to do investigations, accident reconstructions, you name it. Anything to do with any type of vehicle, Mike has and will do with his company. So Mike, why don’t you tell us a little bit about yourself and how you got into this field?

Mike DiTallo:

Great. Good morning. Thank you very much for having me. So yes, I started, seems like years ago now, in law enforcement, and I had just a wonderful career and a great opportunity to specialize as a traffic officer. So, most of my career in law enforcement was as a traffic officer, and there I was able to do what many police officers do in that area and take classes and learn the subject matter of crash investigation and crash reconstruction. In addition to that, I rode a police motorcycle and did heavy vehicle enforcement as a DOT officer. So, all those combined with normal traffic functions I did for quite a while until I had another great opportunity to actually leave early from the law enforcement career that I was undergoing to move from California to Illinois to teach at the Traffic Institute. I ended up teaching and developing classes and helping with chapters and textbooks for a career that span both part-time and full-time 27 years, and recently, I retired from that.

David Craig – Host:

So, you’re an adjunct instructor at the Northwestern University Traffic Institute, is that correct?

Mike DiTallo:

It is, yes.

David Craig – Host:

Yeah, and I know I’ve seen the books and so you’ve actually contributed as an author to a couple of the different textbooks used there, right?

Mike DiTallo:

That’s correct, and I had the great opportunity to teach with and be mentored by some great people, including Lynn Fricke, who was one of the founding members of that program.

David Craig – Host:

So, what was it that intrigued you about this area? I mean, obviously you’re a police officer, part of being a police officer is you’re investigating wrecks and accidents and then you had this opportunity to teach. What was it that kind of attracted you to this area business?

Mike DiTallo:

Well, I think for me, and as something that’s carried over into my private work. I think of a crash investigation as a giant puzzle. I enjoy trying to take all the puzzle pieces and trying to accurately put them together and complete the puzzle, to figure out ultimately what a crash reconstructionist does, is how the accident occurred.

David Craig – Host:

So Mike, there’s all kinds of accident reconstructionists and over 35 years I’ve worked with all kinds, and some keep up on training and some don’t, and there’s a lot changed in 35 years. I mean, accident reconstruction is completely different, investigation is completely different, the way we document a scene is completely different. So, I always get scared when I see, and I’m happy when I see those guys on the other side, but I think that there has been a lot of changes. So, one of the things that I like working with you is that you’ve kept up on all the technology, you kept on all those things. Maybe you can tell us a little bit about your certifications and the type of things you’ve done that kind of kept you on top of your game in this area of expertise.

Mike DiTallo:

Sure. So obviously, the physics and the main staple of crash reconstruction and the technical aspect has really stayed the same, but there are a tremendous number of advances in the available technology that’s out there. Think about our own vehicles, cars, big trucks, the use of video cameras outside in the environment as well as in the vehicles, just the safety features of vehicles and the available data that may come along with things like infotainment systems or a collision mitigation system. Ultimately, we’re leading toward vehicles that may totally be autonomous out on the road as it grows and grows and grows. So, things are absolutely changing, and I can think about 35 years ago where the tape measure was just a tremendous tool, tape measure and a plumb bob, and those tools work great. I mean, they do the job. As time went on, we transferred over and used total stations, things that surveyors used for years, and for years that was a great tool and still is.

Today we’re keeping up, we’re implementing drones all the time in our work. It’s gotten to be so safe and effective to use a drone. The amount of data that you can collect, we’re using scanners either with handheld scanners or tripod mounted scanners to measure. To think about that is we can collect data and get so much more data, do a better job, do it more effectively, do it safer in many instances. We’ve kept up with our knowledge because there’s always something to learn. So many things have changed with human factors in crash reconstruction. There’s just a lot of areas. So we work really hard here at Dynamic Safety to continue to learn. We’ve participated in a lot of crash testing, which has really elevated our knowledge and our experience and in a lot of ways, being able to participate and do a lot of crash testing over the years, just a lot of research. So I’ve had great opportunities and I continue to try to learn.

David Craig – Host:

I think one of the things that’s kind of unique and neat about your company, Dynamic Safety, is that you also have different types of folks in there. You’ve got civil engineer, mechanical engineer, police officers, a lot of people with different backgrounds, which has to compliment each other when you’re, like you said earlier, trying to solve this puzzle.

Mike DiTallo:

It really does. I mean, when you take a look at a crash and you’re trying to figure out how it occurred and the different aspects of it, it’s great to be able to chat about it and work together and try to resolve those puzzle pieces so that we can be as accurate as we can be, which is always what we strive to do.

David Craig – Host:

So when there’s a wreck and you guys are hired, so who hires you? What type of folks hire you or your company?

Mike DiTallo:

Sure. Well, we offer a crash investigation, crash reconstruction services all over the world, and of course, our main clients are attorneys. Second of that would probably be insurance companies, and then occasionally we do some work for automobile manufacturers or manufacturers, tire manufacturers, things like that. Those would be our main clients both on the defense side and on the plaintiff’s side. I think that’s really the majority.

David Craig – Host:

Yeah, and do you find that helpful? I mean, I think that when a lawyer, especially a good lawyer who’s working a case, looks at hiring an expert, there are some experts you can hire who only do one side and that’s all they do. The problem with that is that, they may not be as credible and especially, I mean there are some really good ones that just do one side, but the problem is if you find ones that just tell you what you want to hear, those are the ones that are short-lived. Those don’t last long, and that’s the worst mistake a lawyer can make, is hire somebody who doesn’t tell you the truth but tells you what you want to hear. You guys do both sides, and I would imagine that that’s helpful to you, it keeps you kind of objective, and it helps you provide the quality services that you guys are used to providing.

Mike DiTallo:

Sure. I mean, I can really just kind of speak for our company and work, my work. I’ve really appreciated and valued the fact that I’ve had the opportunity and continue to be able to look at an accident for what it is, look at the facts, evaluate the evidence, and be able to present that no matter what side I’m working for. I think it does add credibility. There’s certainly some companies out there, maybe, based upon, not necessarily the individual, but the company that may have more business in one area than another that do a very nice job, as you mentioned, and I’ve always appreciated trying to do a nice job no matter who it is, and again, evaluate that case for the physical evidence and the merits that it has.

David Craig – Host:

I know with us when we get hired, what we want to know is what happened? Why did this wreck happen? My family, I only do the plaintiff side and we work on a lot of car accidents involving semi-tractor trailers or sometimes semi-tractor trailers with another semi-tractor trailer, but the family comes to us when it’s a wrongful death or when there are serious catastrophic injuries, and the first question they ask me is, “What happened? Why did this wreck happen,” and the only way I can find that out is to hire people like you. Maybe you can tell us a little bit about, and walk us through what happens. So, I get that phone call from a client and there’s a horrible semi wreck, I call you. Tell me kind of what goes through your head? What do you guys do? How do you put this together? How do you solve this problem?

Mike DiTallo:

Sure. So in my teachings at Northwestern, my practice, I’ve always been a firm believer, I’ve encouraged my clients I think for the serious accidents, the serious crashes, it’s important to go out and gather physical evidence as quick as possible and to actually do that work. There are some wonderful police departments out in the United States that do a fantastic job of just that, collecting data and having it available, but I believe no matter if you have a small agency that may or may not be doing a full on, thorough reconstruction based upon their own practices or even a fantastic police agency that will collect data really well, I think it’s really important to go out as soon as possible and to at least, collect all the available data, so that if you need to do a crash reconstruction, if you need to put it together and determine how it happened, you have the most amount of things to be able to work with to figure out those puzzle pieces, and that’s what we do. We get that call and we suggest we go out right away. It’s a process of getting to the crash site. Sometimes, we go out just as it is occurring. Sometimes we go out the next day depending on when that call comes in, maybe we go out a week or so later, and we collect the data at the scene and then we make arrangements to inspect the vehicles.

David Craig – Host:

And I think-

Mike DiTallo:

Those are the things that we’ll do.

David Craig – Host:

I think it’s important for people to understand that, and as a former police officer, you did a nice job of not throwing the police under the bus. There are really good police departments that do a great job, and there are some police departments that have special units that go out and do these catastrophic or serious wrecks, but there are also other ones that don’t. It’s not their fault. Oftentimes, they don’t get the funding. So, I’ve talked to police officers who are very frustrated that they don’t have the equipment that you guys have, they can’t get their hands on them, they can’t get a drone. A lot of times they’re still measuring, I mean, if you’re out in the rural areas, they’re still measuring with a roller tape. I think that it’s important for people to understand that you can’t take for granted that the police are going to collect and document all the data, all the information, because some do and some don’t.

Mike DiTallo:

That’s absolutely correct. Yeah, that’s so true. It has a lot to do with the size of the agency and maybe where that particular agency is. I mean, some officers who are lucky enough to get some training and go through classes may only have one or two wrecks a year versus other larger departments. At least, I have found in both teaching this and having this as a profession, you really need to continue to do crash reconstruction and do investigations to improve on your skills. You learn so much by doing it, and then trying to put it all together and use the proper methodologies and techniques and physics and math to resolve issues. If you don’t do it enough, even if you had tremendous education, it’s not going to solve some of the uniquenesses that occur in crash reconstruction.

David Craig – Host:

So, I think just for our audience is designed for just ordinary folks who have had the bad luck of being in one of these type of wrecks or having a family member in those type of wrecks. The first point that you need to learn is don’t rely on the police to gather all the information because they may not, and if they don’t collect it, like you said, I mean, time is of the essence. It’s important to collect this quickly. The insurance companies have rapid crash response teams that they’ll send out. I’ve talked with them. I lecture as well, and I’ve spoken at many conferences with the defense lawyers. The defense lawyers will say in their contract, they’re required to have somebody at the scene within 24 hours. So the defense, the insurance company, the trucking industry, they have their people, they understand this point, they understand that the police don’t always do a great job, and so they don’t chance it. They send their people out to protect them, and the victims of the wrecks also need to do that. Would you agree with that?

Mike DiTallo:

Absolutely.

David Craig – Host:

So, let’s talk a little bit about what you do. So what is collecting the data? What is preserving the evidence? What do you do when you get that call?

Mike DiTallo:

Sure. So immediately, I obviously try to talk to my client and figure out what we know, a little bit about what they may think happened in the crash. Maybe we’re lucky enough to have a basic crash report pretty quickly, maybe not. Then, we basically make plans to get out to the crash scene right away as soon as possible. Once we get out to the crash scene, it’s going to be a process of walking the environment, trying to identify physical evidence that’s there, if it’s safe, marking the physical evidence in the environment that could be paint, could be chalk, and then determining the best methodology to measure, to collect data and to photograph.

So a series of those things. There will be ground photographs, there could be video, there could be some type of scanning, and most likely, there’ll be the use of a drone, at least with us. So, we’ll use a drone after we’ve walked the scene and identified the physical evidence, taken some ground photography work, and then we’ll put a drone up in the air and take more photographs, take a ton of photographs so that we can later go back and incorporate maybe police information, police measurements, use police photographs, use our stuff, ultimately then to have a diagram or a point cloud or a three-dimensional environment, all kinds of different things so that we can use it to analyze if needed to determine how that crash happened.

David Craig – Host:

Then, I know also you’ll do downloads of the equipment. I mean, at a later point you go and inspect the vehicles, and I know you’ve been kind enough to provide me with some slides or some documentation.

Mike DiTallo:

Sure.

David Craig – Host:

Maybe you want to walk us through some of that.

Mike DiTallo:

I’d love to.

David Craig – Host:

To educate us on what do you do when you’re hired in one of these wrecks?

Mike DiTallo:

Okay, so here’s an accident that occurred that we were lucky enough to get out there pretty quickly. So in a case like this, we would be staying out of the law enforcement’s way and the emergency personnel’s way until we may be allowed to go in and collect that data. So, here after most importantly, the injured people were cared for and the scene was safe. We may be allowed into the scene, and we would do exactly the things we’ve been talking about. We would take photographs, and we would mark the physical evidence if it hadn’t been marked or at least check how it had been marked. We would take ground photographs. We may be able to inspect this vehicle to some degree while it’s at the scene, all the vehicles. We may be able to measure them, take photographs of them at the scene depending on timing and where it is and how quickly things need to be cleaned up for law enforcement reasons and traffic flow reasons. So, this kind of gives you an idea, we get right out there and if we can, start collecting data and then let’s say that-

David Craig – Host:

When you get out there are the police, I mean, my experience has been sometimes the police are happy when folks like yourself show up because sometimes you can help them as far as your investigation. Are they typically happy to see or do they keep you back and don’t let you help?

Mike DiTallo:

I think they certainly make sure that they’re doing what they need to do and don’t allow people like myself in until it’s safe and until they’re ready for that. Obviously, they don’t have to let us in, it’s an emergency scene and I certainly appreciate that. We honor that professionalism and stay back until it’s okay if they do decide to let us in. But I agree with you, I think if there’s any tool that I have that the police could use or anything like that, we certainly are happy to help them with a piece of equipment or something as they do their work. So, here’s just another example of a bunch of physical evidence at the scene, just a close up so your viewers can see. These are being marked and labeled and the paint really helps people later on see the physical evidence and identify it for what it is, including the crash reconstructionist.

So, you can see the scene is being marked, the tire positions of vehicles are being marked, and then we’ll collect that data as we’ve been talking about. So, here’s kind of an example of what we might ultimately do with it. We take all that data that we’ve been collecting and come back and be able to build an environment, whether that’s a three-dimensional environment or a plain diagram or an ortho illustration. We would have that physical evidence, you can see it here in blue, that would represent rest positions and tire marks and gouges, which will ultimately allow us to do some analytical work when we’re ready to do that. Another closeup view of that. So, here this happens to be a simulation and there’s some vehicles that are being analyzed through their dynamics of the crash, going along, ultimately following the physical evidence, and they’ll move to toward into their rest positions.

So, this is a later step, but the time we spend collecting the evidence initially, allows us to do a much better job later when we get to this step to be accurate in how this collision occurred and the things that we’re trying to resolve. Here’s an example of a drone photograph. So, we’ll go along the scenes flying at two or three different heights, altitudes, taking photographs straight down, sometimes additionally at an angle, and we will go along and take pictures at a scene and we’re going to go probably further than the police might because we may later want to do a time distance analysis or look at additional sight lines or maybe build an animation or a simulation. So, we want more of the environment or the scene collected. You can see that the photograph is pretty small in focus and we’ll collect, obviously just lots of photographs with overlap going up and down the road for a 1000, 1500 feet or more dependent on what we need to do.

David Craig – Host:

I think that’s a great point. I mean, I think drones have definitely changed a lot of how we go about doing it. There’s a photograph, I know you provided a photograph of your drone, and just in the last several years we’ve seen that expand so much. To give you an example, we had a fatality involving a semi down in Kentucky. We scanned, we used the drone on part of it, but part of what we couldn’t do because of overpasses in the airport, but there are other scanning equipment that we would scan the roadway and just like you mentioned, instead of just doing right there at the scene, which is what the police tend to do, we wanted to back up on the route that the driver had done to show signage, different things that he would’ve encompassed.

The combination of the scanner, putting on scanning the whole roadways and the drone, really, really just made that, and we didn’t know at the time when we did it what would we need until we worked with the reconstructionist down the road and we heard what the defense version was. Then, all of a sudden, we’re like, “Oh my god, thank goodness we scanned this whole construction zone, this whole highway, and shot it with a drone because now we have the evidence, we’ve preserved it for our reconstructionist,” but drones are just, I think they’re the greatest tool in the world.

Mike DiTallo:

They are and the cameras and the quality that we’re able to produce from using a drone, and you mentioned earlier when we were speaking about the technology, the software today allows us to take all these different sources like ground photographs and drone photographs and scan data and put them all together and use them together to have just the end result, which is fantastic, and allowing us to do our work.

So, I just had a couple more. This is kind of a long stretch of road. So using the drone, this is an ortho, which is what’s produced from taking all those small photographs. I’d like to zoom in to just show you the clarity. So that’s that same ortho, and when you zoom in, you can see all the paint and the physical evidence. Here’s the tire positions. So again, by using the drone from different altitudes, going over a long stretch of the road, we have the environment, we have signage, we have overpasses from the least, the top of top view or side view, and we can add in underneath by maybe doing scans. We have all the physical evidence captured allowing us to do that work.

Then, the second component, of course is using some type of a scanner. So, we’ve been using scanners now for years. We happen to use the FARO brand there, there’s a couple leading brands, FARO and Leica, and then there’s hand scanners now. Believe it or not, our cell phone with certain apps, our cell phones have LiDAR on them. They also are doing a fantastic job of being a tool to use for scanning. So, we take this device and we go out and we’re taking millions of measurements that by hand we probably could never achieve. Here’s an example.

David Craig – Host:

I think for people who don’t understand what a scanner is, it’s creating something in a 3D environment. I mean, tell us a little bit about what a scanner is. I mean, this is a great example, it shows a tractor, semi-tractor in a scan.

Mike DiTallo:

Right. So a scanner’s actually going out and taking a measurement. You’re sending out a laser and taking a measurement and collecting millions of measurements in doing that. There’s different kinds of scanners, but in general, think about it just going out and collecting this data and it’s collecting volumes of data, which will allow you to come back and have a 3D model of what it is you’re measuring. So here, if you move that scanner around in different positions and then later you put them all together, you have that 3D model like this, and you can go take measurements or take any other kind of collection of data you want to do. If you want to measure a crash, or have a vehicle that’s damaged in your drawing or your ortho or your simulation, you have that 3D model to work with. Again, looking at accuracy.

David Craig – Host:

I think that when I first started my career, I would have somebody in reconstruction go out and we would measure the scene with a roller tape or whatever, but sometimes you wouldn’t measure something that because you didn’t know it was going to be an issue. You didn’t measure it, and then three years later when you’re getting ready to go to trial, two years later, all of a sudden your reconstructionists say, “Well, did you measure this?” That’s the worst feeling in the world, and the great thing about the scanner is it measures everything. I mean, if you’re doing it right, you’re measuring the entire area.

So, I’ve had a case, I had a semi wreck where causing a brain injury over in New Castle, Indiana and in that we scanned it. As a perfect example, we didn’t think something was an obstruction, never dawned on us to be an obstruction, didn’t appear to be an obstruction, but the defendant said that it was, well, and we wouldn’t have measured that because it wasn’t anything in that area. Because we had scanned it, we were actually able to show that it wasn’t, and that there’s no way that it was an obstruction. So scanning, it protects you, it protects the evidence. Sometimes highways change, sometimes the side of the roads change, buildings get built, and buildings get tore down. All those things can happen during a pendency of a case, and the great thing about scanning is, it locks all that in so it’s preserved.

Mike DiTallo:

Sure. I mean, you’re absolutely correct, and the gray hair on my head, I’ve experienced the same thing. So, I’ve been doing this for 35 years now. There weere certainly times early on, especially with taking hand measurements where I’ve said to myself, “I wish I would’ve taken a few more measurements or taken a measurement differently,” or “I forgot to take a measurement.” That certainly does happen, and having the technology today, really reduces that problem. In the example you gave, we can take that scanner and put it inside of the object like the vehicle and take scans inside as well. Scanners are being used for all kinds of different usages. So you’re right, we’re modeling it, we’re taking all kinds of information that can be used again to fill in those puzzle pieces. Then, I think you mentioned a little bit about downloads. So, the next thing of course would be to see the vehicles. As we’re measuring them and taking photographs, we’re also thinking about appropriately collecting the data that’s inside of a vehicle, a big truck, a train, whatever the case may be.

David Craig – Host:

I think that’s another point for people who are watching this who don’t do this for a living, is that they don’t realize how much data is available in semi-tractor trailers, in cars. That stuff isn’t preserved forever. I mean, if they drive it, if it’s put back in service, if the equipment is sometimes totaled, I mean, they get it out of there, the cars, they’ll smash it. I mean, that stuff is only there when it’s there, and so you’ve got to get out there to examine this equipment. We send out a preservation of evidence letter immediately when we get hired. Some defense lawyers, I mean, a lot of these people in the trucking industry are the same folks. You deal with them a lot, so you trust each other. The experts know each other, they trust each other and they work together on a lot of different cases.

So, you can say, “Hey look, we’re going to work on setting up an inspection,” and it’s amazing how many folks just cooperate nowadays. There are some that don’t, and so we have to file quickly and get a restraining order to keep the equipment from being touched until both sides can get out there and look at it. If you’re listening to this, the thing you have to understand is that you’ve got to move quickly to get out there and find out what information is available in the vehicles that were involved in the wreck.

Mike DiTallo:

So true, and when you think about the different items that we may be able to get information from, the list just keeps growing. So think about a car, a simple car. There may be a person who’s using an aftermarket video camera in their car. There could be information on your cell phone that could be useful and important. There’s infotainment imaging now, and an infotainment system would be a system that allows you to have navigation and you connect your phone to your car, and it’s just collecting and has a data available within that infotainment system that could provide it all kinds of data, position, speed, cell phone information, things like that. Then, what we’ve had now for a considerable number of years is information from the airbag control modules. So, of course, every car that has an airbag has a brain that has to manage using the airbags and the restraint systems to protect the occupants.

Most of those today have data within inside of them, potentially, certainly if the airbag’s deployed or in many cases, in a near deployment that we can go and collect, and that’s just a handful. When we get into heavy vehicles, some heavy vehicles today have driver airbags, so they’re going to have an airbag control module. They have for a totally different reason, engine control modules, which is really meant as a diagnostic and fuel management system that has the potential of recording information, very useful information. Again, cameras, collision mitigation systems, communication systems with cellular or cloud-based systems, things that advise the driver to be careful because they’re getting too close. Just a ton of information. Some of that information is volatile. As an example, in a ECM that may have the ability to record a hard break or sudden stop, they only record so many. If you have another, it has to make room for it.

So, if you have another hard break, it’s going to erase the oldest one and you’re never going to be able to get that back. So again, importance is getting that information collected so that we have it to work with. Then, as we go on later on, we collect all that data, we start to put it together, we try to figure out how it happens, and we may be building environments, so that we can look and have some type of information to lend towards showing the jury, the judge, ourselves, the attorneys how this all happened. So, we may use it to have models of docks or buildings or roadways or combinations of things, and then of course, we would have the vehicles moving, whatever the case may be, to put it all together to start to tell everyone based on the physical evidence, testimonial evidence, everything we have to work with all electronic information, just what happened in a particular crash.

Then lastly, I’ll add, sometimes we have to go out and do some testing. So, it may be measuring something like the coefficient of friction of a surface. That’s important for the viewers to think about is, every road has a different coefficient of friction, it could be based on how new it is or how old it is or if it’s wet or if there’s snow or ice on it. This all leads to the ability of how well we can stop, as an example.

We can go out and we can measure. We can test if a component is working correctly. In big trucks, it’s important to have the braking system, the foundation braking system working well, not having air leaks, not having brakes that are out of adjustment so it can stop effectively. So, we can look at that and make sure that that’s occurring. If by chance there is a problem, we can see really if it affects the braking ability. So we’re taking the combination of the mechanical aspect of the car or truck as well as the environment in which it’s doing it on. Again, add more to those puzzle pieces to figure out what happened.

David Craig – Host:

I think I’ve actually, I know you do some teaching as well out in Montana, and I’ve been out there, you teach out there with the Grills and others, and out there I went out and your son was teaching that particular class, but we actually got to do some skid testing and some stopping, looking at measurements, the difference between a SUV and a tractor trailer versus a tractor. That’s something that you guys are doing all the time, right?

Mike DiTallo:

We are. We’re constantly learning, testing. The class that you mentioned, I’ve been lucky enough to attend as a guest lecturer. This is a great class where attorneys from all aspects can attend and get behind the wheel. They don’t have to have a CDL because it’s a closed environment. It’s a safe environment. You’re with a heavy vehicle, driving instructor that has tons of years of instruction time and you’re driving these heavy vehicles and appreciating the uniquenesses of it as compared to a car. Even a motorcycle has its uniquenesses as compared to a car. So, you’re learning in a truck, the size, how it handles, how it shifts, how it breaks, the gauges, different things in that vehicle that you need to monitor or pay attention to be familiar with that are different than being inside of a car. So to me, it’s a great opportunity to be able to drive those heavy vehicles, sit in them and really get some familiarity with them.

David Craig – Host:

Why don’t you tell the audience, in case there’s some young lawyers listening, what’s the name of that program that you guys run?

Mike DiTallo:

Sure. It’s called Legacy and it’s through Adam and Lou Grill. They’re a couple of experienced truck drivers that happened to be consultants in the area of standards of care for heavy vehicle operations.

David Craig – Host:

I can vouch, I mean, I took my lawyers, my group of my lawyers out there, and because this is such a big area of our practice, commercial motor vehicle wrecks, it is well worth going out there. I mean, not only in driving the semi-tractor trailer, pulling a tractor, backing a tractor, and just looking at what you can see, what you can’t see, and getting that experience, but then also, we got to ride with experienced semi drivers and we drove out to a facility that they have that to do things, but just riding in that, just riding out on the highway, just it’s like, “Oh my gosh.” Watching cars interact with you, a semi-tractor, it creates a whole new awareness. It also creates an appreciation for semi drivers because you realize, I mean they have to be alert I mean, every second.

Sometimes when we drive a car, maybe we’re not as aware as we should be, but the semi tractor trailer, they don’t have an option. I mean, they have to be, to be safe, they’ve got to be paying attention because cars come in and cut them off, all those type of things. So, I have a whole new respect for the semi drivers, what’s involved in it, how much attention, how draining it is to operate that equipment. Not only did I learn stuff about how semis work, how you do some loading and those type of things, but I also learned to respect semi drivers.

Mike DiTallo:

Well, that’s great. I mean, when we got together myself, the Grills, we had a very prominent defense attorney, very prominent plaintiff attorney all together talk about cooperation when we designed this class. It was really meant for that appreciation. So, I’m so happy that you found value in it. I would encourage anyone in the practice of transportation to think about doing something like that, it really benefits you.

David Craig – Host:

Yeah. One other thing that you guys, I think store evidence, store vehicles, do you do that at all?

Mike DiTallo:

We do. So when my partner Tom Green and I moved into this facility, we built it from the ground up and we built it in a way that we could have shop with a hydraulic lift where we could do some inspections, behind that we have an indoor storage facility. So as an example, I do some work for the Air Force and we recently had an ATV case. We had to do just a tremendous amount of testing and we were able to facilitate that inside of the facility. So it’s just a great place to store vehicles and to have the right tools and environment to do proper investigation and testing.

David Craig – Host:

I think, again, for folks that are listening that never been through this, whenever I have a catastrophic wreck or a wrongful death case, I always preserve the vehicle, my client’s vehicle. So, I will find a facility, we’ll store it, and people may like, “Well, why would we do that?” Again, it is out of caution because in case something comes up, you know, are going to scan it, you’re going to do all the things, you’re going to measure, you’re going to do all those things, but you never know exactly what’s going to… To anticipate what’s going to be raised, what question, is there an issue that maybe you didn’t think about? I had a serious brain injury and we stored the vehicle and later we looked at it as a product case. So not only was there a negligence part where somebody crossed the center line and hurt this person, but we preserved it because we knew that there might be a product liability case.

So later, we raised that case and we were able to settle with the manufacturer. Again, your lawyers, if you pick the right lawyers and your lawyers are experienced, they’re going to look at these things and not only go out and preserve the evidence, but then how do I protect it? It’s not that expensive to take the piece of the vehicles that are involved and store it. In addition, if I have to go try the case, you may make a decision to use that and bring it into trial and have it brought to the courthouse so people can go out and look at it. So, I think that storing it can be just as important. Unfortunately, we get hired by lawyers sometimes that have held cases for a year and a half to try to settle it and then it couldn’t settle and they didn’t go out and do any of these things that you just talked about.

Mike DiTallo:

Sure.

David Craig – Host:

Boy, that’s tough. It’s not impossible, but it’s just like, “Boy, you missed out on some opportunities.” The vehicles are gone. You didn’t send preservations letters out and those type of things.

Mike DiTallo:

Well, you said it well, and you said it with great experience, obviously. So, sometimes we do get cases that occur several years ago, and it doesn’t necessarily mean you can’t put things together to figure out how something happened, but it generally makes it more complicated. When you make something more complicated, it makes it more time consuming and that adds costs. There are certainly times when you can’t figure out something or maybe everything that you really want to, and of course, that’s not helpful. So you try, but you can only work with what you have to work with. So those challenges do exist.

David Craig – Host:

One last thing and I’ll let you go, but I know your son has joined your company, and I’m fortunate and blessed that I get to practice law with my daughter who’s a lawyer, my son who’s a lawyer, and then my younger son who’s videotaping this today, who’s a professional videographer. I can tell you from my personal experience, there’s nothing I love better than getting to see my kids and work with my kids. So how’s that been for you?

Mike DiTallo:

It’s been a blessing. It’s not something I ever expected. He had some different ideas of a career path, and when he ultimately changed his mind and wanted to join the firm, it was just great. He’s been doing great. He is a crash reconstructionist. He’s continuing to learn. He’s got tremendous investigative technician experience now. He’s fantastic flying the drone, where I know my limitations, that’s not something that I wanted to do, and he’s doing great. We’re really happy he’s here.

David Craig – Host:

Yeah. Well I enjoyed, I got to work with him out in Montana and I’m glad in another case we got to work with him on, and I know he is doing a great job and I appreciate everything you do for us. Is there anything else that you think that folks should know that we haven’t touched on?

Mike DiTallo:

No, I’d just like to reiterate what we’ve done and talked about this morning, that the importance on these serious accidents of collecting data is priceless to understand how an accident occurred, and certainly working with fantastic lawyers and insurance people are a benefit. So I’ve always enjoyed working with you and you’re a fantastic lawyer, and I’ve certainly learned a lot of things in our interactions. So thank you.

David Craig – Host:

Thank you, Mike, and I appreciate you being a guest on After the Crash. This is David Craig, and you’ve been listening to After the Crash. If you’d like more information about me or my law firm, please go to our website, C-K-F-L-A-W.com. Or if you’d like to talk to me, you can call 1-800-ASK-DAVID. If you would like a guide on what to do after a truck wreck, then pick up my book, Semi-Truck Wreck: A Guide for Victims and Their Families, which is available on Amazon, or you can download it for free on our website, ckflaw.com.